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| surfing72 | | Set |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 20/03/2012 | | Posts | : | 483 | | Location | : | Nth, New South Wales, Australia |
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| | Posted : 18 Jun 2013 - 08:59 Post title : custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please | | | OK so I have recently put custom stainless mufflers on the Tbird for a different look and a louder better quality sound. The end result was the design that I wanted, a better running bike with no popping on deceleration, a quality sound due to the stainless steal and wool / insulation however the bike is definitely quieter - this I did not want . These pipes are drilled straight through and have no baffles to be knocked out. It amazes me that a massive 1600cc twin can sound like a sewing machine and some smaller V twin's are twice the volume. I understand that not all people appreciate loud motorcycles but I do. The Tbird is better than a HD in every way for me except for the quiet exhaust sound. I've heard all the systems there are on the market on you tube etc...and I wouldn't consider any of them loud unless your twisting the throttle. At idle the Tbirds sound is pathetic. At low revs its not much better.
Anyway the bloke that built the mufflers has said that he can knock up a set of single skinned, larger diameter, stainless headers and is of the belief that this will open up the exhaust and give me the sound that I desire. This option will set me back $450 on top of the $1000 I have already outlaid. 
Another exhaust professional has told me that header pipes won't change the sound dramatically subsequently providing me with the louder sound I am chasing. This fella has told me that the mufflers need to be cut open, all insulation / wool removed and this would make the bird sing as I desire. This option would cost $240.
The first bloke will do both options for $500.
So, Does anybody know about headers and if having larger diameter ones fitted would increase the volume of the exhaust note?
Its not so much the money that is an issue (until the bride finds out ) I just want to do the job once and get what I want. I don't want to replace a perfectly good pair of headers that are on the bike for no reason.
Does anybody have knowledge about exhausts and their volume. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 
Dan
| Dan
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| fab | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 2,515 | | Location | : | wyong, nsw, Australia |
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| | Posted : 18 Jun 2013 - 10:17 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | | jack has got custom headers single wall which are the same size as the outside shield on our headers and his bike is no louder than mine at idle or through the rev range.
I think you will have to open up the mufflers for a full sound.
I have starts my bike without the mufflers or cat,if you like loud that will do it for sure
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Remember, soft cocks hang around all life long, hard ones come and go
ahh f**k im deep
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| ThunderRat | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 08/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,056 | | Location | : | Castle Hill, NSW, Australia |
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| | Posted : 18 Jun 2013 - 10:37 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | | Fab is right, headers won't make any difference. I know the Foran pipes have stainless steel in them and they are straight through and give a great sound so maybe you have too much sound deadening wool in them. When they were built didn't you tell the guy you wanted some noise? I would ask him to fix them as it appears he did not give you what you wanted.
| "I started life with nothing and still have most of it left"
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| daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 18 Jun 2013 - 13:39 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | | I believe the header diameter is the reason HD's have a deeper sound with more rumble. But like others said, they'll not do exactkly that if the rest isn't also modded. The cat kills it so that must go. The mufflers must be open. Then you may run into other issuse like mounting. And did this guy say the headers he'd make will have a crossover? It should. I think it's going to be a PITA, but you gotta do what ya gotta do.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| edbob | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 04/04/2012 | | Posts | : | 931 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 18 Jun 2013 - 15:37 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | | Stupid question, and just to be clear - you have the cat removed, right? Shorter pipes will give more noise, as well.
| "You will ride eternal shiny and chrome"
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| TBRider | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 21/10/2011 | | Posts | : | 834 | | Location | : | Foothills, The Mountains, United States |
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| | Posted : 19 Jun 2013 - 03:28 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: edbob) | | | Yep! That's exactly right, "shorter is louder." Try a set of short TORS and you'll see what he means. Remover the cat with the short TORS and you'll really know what loud is. Adding a larger diameter headers will increase scavanging and faster release of exhaust pulse, hence better performance. You'll have a deeper tonal quality to the exhaust note but not more volume.
Not interested in more volume just the performance aspect. Now you've got me interested, who's the individual who'll do the larger diameter single wall headers? I just might be interested in a set. I've already done this with the Thruxton, custom Urbane exhaust with 2" headers.
PM me or post the gentlemans contact info, if you will.
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| Leethal | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,405 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 19 Jun 2013 - 03:44 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: TBRider) | | | Pretty sure that is what Dan took off.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it 
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| MickeyBoy | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 553 | | Location | : | WiNe CoUnTrY TeMeCuLa, Socialist State of Kalifornia, United States |
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| | Posted : 19 Jun 2013 - 03:58 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | | A water cooled bike will never sound like an air cooled bike. You could run straight pipes and you won't get that HD sound. Never gonna happen. I say gut the pipes yourself and save the money. My only concern would be a hollow sound due to the design of the muffler.
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| daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 19 Jun 2013 - 04:08 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please | | | By the way, for anyone interested in larger diameter headers call TPUSA or south bay triumph. They made them for the salt flat Tbird. Whether they will have them for sale at some point or custom make them to order i dunno. But they DID make a set so they are capable and have the experience.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| surfing72 | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 20/03/2012 | | Posts | : | 483 | | Location | : | Nth, New South Wales, Australia |
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| | Posted : 19 Jun 2013 - 06:28 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | | Thanks for all the feed back boys.
My previous exhaust set up was short TORS with the cat removed. I wouldn't consider this to be a loud system other than when the throttle is given a good twist and the sound quality....well its a bit like a wet fart but louder of course.
It sounds as though the general consensus is that its the mufflers that need attention - not the headers to get what I want.
The exhaust manufacturer has emailed saying that he will build and fit the headers with no obligation on my side. If I don't like them then they will refit my original headers and nothing lost nothing gained so to speak. Its just another day off work wasted standing around outside an exhaust shop when I could be riding or surfing or fishing or playing guitar or drinking beer or............
The second bloke who will only mod the mufflers for the cheaper option I can drop just the pipes off to him and pick them up a couple of days later so there's little inconvenience to me.
With all the info so far I'm leaning towards the cheaper option and holding onto the original headers.
What do you blokes think??
| Dan
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| Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,405 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 19 Jun 2013 - 07:41 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | | Dan, sounds to me like you want that louder sound down low, from idle to say 2000 without having to use throttle to create it ? After that acceleration and throttle give most free flow systems decent sound. Have you tried running it without cat and mufflers just to see if the engine is capable of making the noise/beat that you want.
I think HD worked on that for a long time.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| surfing72 | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 20/03/2012 | | Posts | : | 483 | | Location | : | Nth, New South Wales, Australia |
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| | Posted : 19 Jun 2013 - 09:11 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: Leethal) | | | Yeah good idea mate. I'll do that for sure. Perhaps the bikes configuration simply cannot provide what I want regarding sound. Its a shame if thats the case because everything else about the bird is perfect for me. Another bloke commented that "water cooled" bikes won't make the sound as a HD. My mate that I ride with mostly has a M109 Buly water cooled 1800cc and crist you know about it when he's around. The Sydney Harbour tunnel was a ripper. So I'm not sure its the water cooled motor that is to blame but I'm far from an expert. I'll keep you fellas posted in any case.
Cheers,
Dan
| Dan
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| rabbi | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 28/02/2012 | | Posts | : | 926 | | Location | : | Geelong, Victoria, Australia |
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| | Posted : 19 Jun 2013 - 10:10 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | | I'm running catless Forans with a hybrid tune and it sounds loud and deep and classier than the HD noise.
| "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why so few people engage in it"
Henry Ford
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| Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,405 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 19 Jun 2013 - 11:40 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: rabbi) | | | Yes Rabs they sound great, but is the sound there at idle and at steady acceleration (like HD's) or only when you give it some, like my tors do, otherwise they are generally quite quiet.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| edbob | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 04/04/2012 | | Posts | : | 931 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 02 Jul 2013 - 04:02 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfin | | | Dan the shorter the better when it comes to sound volume. And you can also tune the end can for a megaphone effect. Our exhausts exit from the front of the motor and make a 180 degree turn and then follow the length of the entire chassis- it's a long way from the explosion to the end of the pipe. V-twin exhausts only make a 90 degree turn (usually) and in every case make a shorter run down the side of the bike. Our exhausts would have to end at the bottom of the motor or sooner to get a similar sound volume. Be careful though because if your system is too open you will actually lose low end torque which is actually helped by back pressure and air momentum. Wide open only serves for maximum flow at high rpm and on this bike it's a waste because the restriction is the throttle body and head flow - sort of like a Honda civic with a 5 inch muffler - it sounds good but doesn't do much
| "You will ride eternal shiny and chrome"
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| surfing72 | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 20/03/2012 | | Posts | : | 483 | | Location | : | Nth, New South Wales, Australia |
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| | Posted : 02 Jul 2013 - 04:20 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: edbob) | | | Yeah thanks mate - makes sense. I have just had then entire muffler gutted of the internal pipe and wool so it is straight threw now. Its definitely louder but sounds cheaper and the popping is back again.
I think I'll just put some ear phones in and listen to music. I give up
Dan
| Dan
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| TBERD | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 30/04/2012 | | Posts | : | 125 | | Location | : | Rotorua, Bay of Plenty, New Zealand |
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| | Posted : 02 Jul 2013 - 04:45 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | | Hey Dan,
Try this link. Link He reckons he's done it and has talked up the increase in power and sound. Havn't heard it myself, but will look him up next time I'm in that part of the country.
Let us know how you get on. I too prefer that low end thump that alot of cruiser type harleys have and I've often wondered if increasing the outlet diameter would do it. For me, the set up that I have is so close to that sound already that I cant justify the cost.  Maybe one day?
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| Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,405 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 02 Jul 2013 - 07:13 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: TBERD) | | | Dean where on the site does he talk about it? I can't even find a mention of the Tbird
Cheers, Lee
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| GerPa | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 02 Jul 2013 - 08:30 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | |
surfing72 wrote:
Yeah thanks mate - makes sense. I have just had then entire muffler gutted of the internal pipe and wool so it is straight threw now. Its definitely louder but sounds cheaper and the popping is back again.
I think I'll just put some ear phones in and listen to music. I give up
Dan |
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 Oi Dan
Why don't you give Peter Herrington at Meerkat Mufflers in Gympie a call, He tells me has been through all trial and disasters and knows what is better or worse. Ph (07) 5482-7553 Mbl 0437 447 503. He certainly gave me that impression when I was contemplating buying his Cat Bypass system.
AleX4 also was very impressed and did a fair bit of development work with Peter Herrington.
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS  ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| surfing72 | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 20/03/2012 | | Posts | : | 483 | | Location | : | Nth, New South Wales, Australia |
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| | Posted : 02 Jul 2013 - 08:41 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: GerPa) | | | Appreciate the info mate but so far I'm $1200 in so I'm not to keen to keep throwing money at the exhaust system. I'm not confident that larger headers would make the sound that I want and reckon with the complete system opened up that much I would require more money to spent on tuning to have the bike run correctly. I blocked of the cross over pipe at the front and even that made the bike idle like a HD with an irregular idle. Think I'll stick with what I have. Good info for others though
| Dan
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| TBERD | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 30/04/2012 | | Posts | : | 125 | | Location | : | Rotorua, Bay of Plenty, New Zealand |
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| | Posted : 03 Jul 2013 - 05:07 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: Leethal) | | |
Leethal wrote:
Dean where on the site does he talk about it? I can't even find a mention of the Tbird
Cheers, Lee |
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Yeah you're right. He doesnt mention it on the web site. But I was on a ride a couple of months ago and he was there also. We got talking and swapped emails and he sent me some pics of a storm which he had done it to. Quote:
Now this bike with these open pipes sounds like a cross between a Ducati and V8 SuperCar ! it sounds awesome :-)
Denis, the owner called in Thursday, he's had it on a Dyno in Wellington, along with some intake mods, a TuneBoy and fine tuning he's get 124 HP at the rear wheel ! He's happy :-) Unquote
You wuold be best to talk to him.
paul@vikingexhaust.com
Paul.
Bryant Manufacturing
Clark Road. R.D.1 Ngaruawahia. 3793 New Zealand
Ph. **64-7-824-8105, Mobile **64-27-242-0781.
Cant seem to transfer the photos he sent me to here.
Cheers,
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| Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,405 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 03 Jul 2013 - 07:22 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: TBERD) | | | Cheers mate, sounds like something that needs to be done in house.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| BizRider | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 19/04/2013 | | Posts | : | 98 | | Location | : | Pompano Beach, Florida, United States |
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| | Posted : 08 Aug 2013 - 12:06 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | |
surfing72 wrote:
I blocked of the cross over pipe at the front and even that made the bike idle like a HD with an irregular idle. |
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Dan, Did blocking the xover pipe had any adverse effect on performance or popping? Did it reduce the sewing machine engine noise?
| When life throws me a curve, I lean into it...
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| surfing72 | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 20/03/2012 | | Posts | : | 483 | | Location | : | Nth, New South Wales, Australia |
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| | Posted : 08 Aug 2013 - 21:41 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: BizRider) | | | Mate I can't remember it making any difference to the popping or sewing machine noise. It was just that the bike idled shocking so I swapped it back as soon I got home.
| Dan
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| BizRider | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 19/04/2013 | | Posts | : | 98 | | Location | : | Pompano Beach, Florida, United States |
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| | Posted : 12 Aug 2013 - 05:32 Post title : Re: custom / larger diameter header pipes??? Advice please (Re: surfing72) | | | Today I went riding with a group of Harley riders. Noticed that all the really loud ones had short headers opening right underneath their engines about 14 to 18 inches from the engine port. I guess it will be a simple header pipe to make for the Tbird since it would just need one 45 degree turn to end near the bottom of the radiator. However that would mean a dramatic change to the look of the bike and of course less backpreasure.
| When life throws me a curve, I lean into it...
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